Cadillac keeps winning racing...why aren't we buying their cars?

"Azrek" (azrek) 01/29/2018 at 08:30 • Filed to: None

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In another race Cadillac wins...yet again...however their sales don’t reflect their racing successes. Why is this? They are slick cars with obvious racing tech associated with them. Is Cadillac not Oppo enough? Or can’t they shake their old man styling?

They have the best cars in the Pirelli World Cup as well...for years...?

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HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:36

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Because motherfucking CUE

Spanfeller is a twat > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:41

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Because they still don’t know how to market themselves to millenials.

Cadillacs are for people that complain about us and they are a dying kind


well, used prices will be good!

CB > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:42

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Ask the average person buying a car if they know about Cadillac’s racing heritage or recent wins. Most of them will go “Cadillac races ?” And then once you explain that it’s not an actual car but a prototype, the person will have already moved on to flipping through Mercedes brochures.

E92M3 > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:43

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While some tech does trickle down to production cars, the street version is not even 10% related to the racecars.

The whole “Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday” mantra hasn’t really applied in the last 30 years. Their vehicles are plagued with poor reliability, and lower retained value compared to competitors.

jimz > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:47

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Because they’re listening to enthusiasts, and those people are bullshitters who never buy what they claim they’d buy.

random001 > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:49

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Because those are only Cadillac’s because of the stickers?

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:50

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Because that’s not a real cadillac it’s a delta 88 spray painted black with fake leather seats from Juarez

Chuckles > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 08:58

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Because the American audience for endurance racing is very small, and because that car has nothing in common with a road going Cadillac.

Azrek > random001 01/29/2018 at 09:01

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Yet we also root for Porsche and Audi in these races? Why can’t Caddy get a fan base for their winning style (if not cars)?

Azrek > E92M3 01/29/2018 at 09:01

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So they are still ‘old man’ cars? Despite winning more than our favorite weekend drivers?

Azrek > Chuckles 01/29/2018 at 09:03

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Pirelli World Cup cars?

random001 > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:08

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Porch races 911's. A lot of them.

I dunno. I would buy a Caddy V before I’d drop coin on a porch, for sure. But there are no C/ATS-V’s tearing up the track at the rolex 24.

Jake, Yes, wearing khakis > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:10

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Hey now, we bought one. Probably going to lose my jalop card for this but.... We bought an xt5. I don’t care, it’s like a driving living room, most comfortable vehicle I’ve ever had the pleasure of driving.

P.S. - We’re not a 50 somethings who complain about people like “us”. We’re 25, have a crx and a 73 charger as project cars and own goats and chickens. I don’t know if that says more about us or more about Cadillacs marketing....

Azrek > random001 01/29/2018 at 09:11

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They tear up the track at Pirelli World Cup and win against 911's, granted the engines are tuned a certain way.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:11

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That new Continental is so nice and classy, I’d buy that.

Chuckles > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:14

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Is that even televised in America?

I was referring to the prototype endurance Cadillac being nothing like the road going cars.

random001 > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:14

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Yes, those cars are really good. Like I said, I was just making a snarky remark, because I don’t know. Marketing, obviously. Quality? Fit and Finish?

random001 > HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute 01/29/2018 at 09:15

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Alright, you win...

Sweet Trav > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:15

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Because they are overpriced. They are priced at a level of a brand that people actually care about (Audi, BMW, Mercedes) it also hurts that they don’t have any compelling power-train options except for the V-cars.

I’d buy a 55k CTS with a detuned 400ish hp LT1. But I don’t want a 4 cylinder or a 6 cylinder in a Cadillac, Especially ones as mediocre as the Ecotec and HFV6.

Azrek > Chuckles 01/29/2018 at 09:15

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It is as most the races are in the US. I’ve seen it on many times. I watch it live in StPete in March.

Party-vi > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:15

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Cadillac /= performance. Cadillac wants to be Audi or BMW or Mercedes, but no one in the US is purchasing one of those marques because they won a race. They are purchased for badges, which is why the CLA and A3 are things. No one wants a Cadillac badge. This is what happens when you produce rebadged shit for a couple decades.

Maxima Speed > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:16

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Because they are unreliable and they don’t have a real sports car on the market. Build a Covette based car like the XLR-V was, and people might take notice.

Sweet Trav > E92M3 01/29/2018 at 09:18

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Cadillac is above the industry average in reliability, and above Audi. I’d argue that the Cadillac brand has delusions of grandeur, and simply asks too much for what the cars are. 

shop-teacher > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:18

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I’d love to, but I an’t affords them.

Azrek > Maxima Speed 01/29/2018 at 09:20

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But the CTS-V is in the same market as the M5? And had a wagon once? 

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/cadillac/cts-v/

Azrek > shop-teacher 01/29/2018 at 09:22

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Thanks for the solid answer!

Chuckles > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:24

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I’m sure it’s a lot of fun to watch live. I think I’ve seen a few races on cbs sports network, but a lot of people don’t get that channel. I enjoy racing, but it’s not easy to follow a series if it isn’t broadcast on a channel that a lot of people get.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:25

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1) They are expensive and therefore are able to be purchased by a relative minority portion of the population.

2) Outside of gear heads who follow racing, Cadillac doesn’t tell anyone about it.

3) See above.

chaozbandit > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:29

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World Challenge cars have about as much in common with the road car as the C7R has. Pratt & Miller massage the chassis, to say the least.

That being said the ATS-V.Rs were great cars but they got BOPd pretty hard last year and you know - no longer racing.

CobraJoe > jimz 01/29/2018 at 09:33

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Because they’re listening to enthusiasts, and those people are bullshitters who never buy what they claim they’d buy.

Because enthusiasts are not of a single mind and have differing needs and budgets?

Azrek > chaozbandit 01/29/2018 at 09:34

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Oh I know, but I still don’t get why they lack a Fan base...it is puzzling to say the least.

https://www.motorsport.com/pwc/news/cadillac-pulls-out-of-pirelli-world-challenge-958808/

smobgirl > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:34

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My first car was a Caddy and I never want to drive anything that gigantic again.

Chuckles > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:35

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I think there’s an issue of perception. True or not, I think the perception is that those Audi and Porsche race cars are more similar to their road going counterparts than the Cadillac race car is to theirs. That might be wholly false, but I think that’s the perception.

B/Xmrrmvr > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:41

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I rented a CTS 3.6 AWD when I visited Seattle this past summer, and my biggest issue was the fact that its piano-black touch sensing panels were complete garbage. Most fun I’ve ever had in a car when I was driving the CTS through backroads on the outskirts of Seattle, but trying to interact with CUE or even the HVAC system during city driving was a headache.

Azrek > Chuckles 01/29/2018 at 09:42

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I suppose then it is just based on favortism. We like our brands and it is tough for us to shake it? I still get excited to see a Lotus or Maserati race car...despite them rarely being competitive. Or when I see my actual E9X frame racing and getting smoked by...well...almost anything, yet my fandom isn’t swayed.
It is just weird they’ve won like 5 years in a row in Pirelli, doing well in Endurance races and yet I don’t see fans appearing in droves...

Chuckles > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:56

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I think favoritism plays a big part, but that’s not the whole story. Look at the Cadillac marketing over the last 5 years. Have they embraced that winning heritage to sell more cars? It doesn’t seem like a priority to them. Cadillac has curated a specific image, and that’s worked very well but is also becoming detrimental. Let’s look at another company and a hypothetical: Harley-Davidson.

Let’s pretend that H-D goes out and builds a liter sportsbike to race against Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Honda. And it wins. Does that mean that people are going to stop buying 750 cc Ninjas and buy Fatboy Harleys instead? No, because that Ninja feels a lot closer to its racing counterpart. Similarly, a Porsche 911 base model feels more like a race car than a base CTS.

Cadillac, like Harley-Davidson, has worked very hard at curating a specific image. And it’s worked for both of them. But when I think of Cadillac, I think of luxury, not sportiness.

CobraJoe > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 09:58

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2 reasons, possibly related.

Price and marketing.

Their marketing is pretty poor, I’ve seen more commercials for the Continental’s seats than I have for any level of Cadillac.

And the price is related because a cheap car can provide word of mouth advertising by getting more vehicles sold, or additional press by being a “david vs Goliath” scenario.

Basically, I’d love to see a 4 door RWD manual car that can compete with a Mustang GT, but I can’t pay the close to double the cost. (Can’t even find a used ATS-V for the cost of a new Mustang GT). Yes, I know, pony car vs luxury sport sedan, but it’s a good example of the cost.

The ATS and CTS are competing in a tough market, and Cadillac is not giving much of a reason (either in price or telling us why outright) why people should not get the BMW or Audi or Mercedes.

Nerd-Vol > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 10:03

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Most of their ad campaigns don’t leverage their racing success.

Most buyers don’t care about racing.

They are winning in the 4th(?) most popular racing series, after NASCAR, F1, and IndyCar. They also haven’t done squat at the highest level of endurance racing. I think that’s what makes the corvette racing team a good thing is that they take their show to Le Mans.

I don’t have one because I can’t afford one. I do love Cadillac though.

jimz > CobraJoe 01/29/2018 at 10:03

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and that’s the other thing. Enthusiasts are a tiny sliver of a fraction of the market, yet they all want their own 1-of-1 perfect unicorn car. then whine endlessly when car companies don’t cater to them.

that’s Cadillac’s problem in a nutshell. they bought into the whole “we have to out-Audi Audi” because that’s what enthusiasts say they want. Then when they make said cars, the audience hems and haws about stuff like “oh... uh... the radio is the wrong shade of silver. No thanks.” when what they really mean was “I never had any intention of buying anything from you, I just think you should make the type of cars I like so I can complain when  other people don’t buy them.”

jimz > Sweet Trav 01/29/2018 at 10:04

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yeah, that was LOL. calling Cadillacs “unreliable” while having a BMW platform code as a user name is pretty funny.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 01/29/2018 at 10:08

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what “millennials” can afford $40k+ cars? this “millennial” garbage needs to go away.

Azrek > Chuckles 01/29/2018 at 10:10

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It seems their left hand and right hand aren’t talking. It appears they are making solid performance cars to go against the M series level of cars, but can’t seem to crack it. The same as Lexus trying hard over and over again with the F series, though they aren’t racing these frames.
But why waste all this time to compete with ze Germans if they can’t market it properly? Especially when they are bringing in former German auto exes to help them? 

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 10:11

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The Caddy’s have an LT. They need more Northstar for that comparison to work.

chaozbandit > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 10:16

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It’s great that Callaway gets to finally sell the Z06.R even if that means losing the ATS-V.R. To be honest, most of the people who follow Cadillac Racing either already know of the V products, came for characters like Jonny O (ex-Corvette Racing) or the Taylor brothers (WTR), or already know of their dominance in world challenge by merit of following other teams.

With the new turbo cars being priced nearly the same as their German counterparts, they don’t have as much of a value proposition.

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > random001 01/29/2018 at 10:17

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Lucky, my front porch can’t do that. You have a very talented porch.

LongbowMkII > Maxima Speed 01/29/2018 at 10:17

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Less reliable than a Lexus I guess

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 10:18

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You lost me at Motor Trend.

random001 > HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute 01/29/2018 at 10:25

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You have no idea!

Chuckles > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 10:25

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Perceptions are hard for anybody to shake. Look at Kia and the Stinger GT. It’s probably a great car, but a lot of people will dismiss it because it’s a Kia.

Combine that with the fact that Cadillac is having success in races that most Americans are hardly aware of (so basically anything outside of Nascar), and it’s hard to change perception by winning.

I’m an Indycar fan, and those races get way more national coverage than the stuff that Cadillac is winning, but most people don’t care about that either.

CobraJoe > jimz 01/29/2018 at 10:39

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“I never had any intention of buying anything from you, I just think you should make the type of cars I like so other people can buy them.”

Even cheap new cars are a pretty serious investment. Speaking personally, If I stretch my car budget to the max, I could maybe afford a new Fiesta ST. Granted, I could go crazy and get something more, but that would require a long loan or straining the monthly income.

The Fiesta ST is a great little car, I’d love to own one, but it’s just not practical. I have 2 kids in car seats and a house that needs occasional repairs, so a small hatchback isn’t quite enough room. (It might be slightly better than my current sedan though) And if a Fiesta doesn’t have enough cargo space, any coupe and most sedans are completely out of the question.

Point is, for most of us enthusiasts, buying the car we dream about is simply out of the realm of possibilities. So, if it only going to be a dream, might as well be our most perfect iteration of the dream, right?

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 01/29/2018 at 10:46

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Perhaps millenial is the wrong age group.
Cadillac still has average buyers aged at 59.

The wealthiest americans (earning the highest mean salary) are those aged 35-49, Cadillac has struggled for the past two decades or so to move into a younger audience. Aditionally it just happens that the mean age of cars in the road in the US is the oldest, meaning that not too many people are looking into buying new cars either.

Cash Rewards > Nerd-Vol 01/29/2018 at 10:48

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Might need to add nhra to that list

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > jimz 01/29/2018 at 11:33

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*pokes you in the eye*

Over here. Not that I would, I’m a cheapskate. Being burned repeatedly by GM products and recessions/depressions in my short working life, there’s no way I would be willing to pay that for some tarted up GM garbage.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 01/29/2018 at 11:34

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If it was cheaper and RWD, I’d be pushing it for a commuter for my family. I wish they’d drop that loser they have in their commercials, though.

marshknute > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 11:45

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Because their road cars still have (comparably) lousy interiors, lackluster exhaust notes, and the ever abysmal CUE infotainment.

jimz > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 01/29/2018 at 12:08

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I think in my advancing age I’m forgetting how old millennials are now.

BahamaTodd > E92M3 01/29/2018 at 13:19

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Yup. Just ask the Chevy SS.

BahamaTodd > Party-vi 01/29/2018 at 13:24

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This.

Its also going to take several decades to change public perception. ie: Everyone that remembers the old Cadillac has to be too old to drive or die first.

E92M3 > Sweet Trav 01/29/2018 at 13:24

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They are ranked dead last of all brands.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

E92M3 > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 13:28

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I wouldn’t say that. If anything they are “Urban”Cars. I think they sell more Escalades that all of their other models combined. I like the CTS-V A LOT. But at $90k there’s so many other choices.

Azrek > E92M3 01/29/2018 at 13:43

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True, but the CTS is their most reliable lemon :)

Sweet Trav > E92M3 01/29/2018 at 14:30

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http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2017-vehicle-dependability-study

Consumer reports is full of crusty geriatrics who are befuddled by the newfangled magic touch screens.

Time, and time again they have shown that they couldn’t spot a good car if it hit them on the freeway, sames goes for computers, washers and dryers, and other household appliances.

I wont claim that either of these reports are gospel, but such divergent data shows that something is wrong.

Sweet Trav > E92M3 01/29/2018 at 14:36

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No, they do not sell more Escalades than all other models combined. The SRX and now the XT5 are their best selling models. Maybe do a little research before commenting?

Sweet Trav > E92M3 01/29/2018 at 14:39

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And here’s initial quality...

http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study/Initial-Quality-Study-%28IQS%29-by-Make/2430ENG

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > jimz 01/29/2018 at 14:59

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I could for much longer than most, but you still feel economic uncertainty when most of the people you know around your age are unemployed, which was the situation back in 2007-2009 or so. I feel like I was incredibly lucky to be continuously employed and making well above the median for my area through those years, but the company was hanging on by a thread with nobody seeing a raise there for 4 long nervous years with a number of layoffs and constant shrinking by attrition...

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Azrek 01/29/2018 at 15:25

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The best explanation that I have is to look at another luxury brand that has reinvented itself with success. Volvo.

Volvo was the quirky English professors car and then later nearly turned into a Saab story (pun kinda intended) by Ford.

Both Volvo and Cadillac have redesigned their vehicles to be visually appealing and striking.

The difference is Cadillac has released 4 new sedans and 1 new SUV while Volvo has released 1 new sedan with wagon and lifted wagon variants and 3 new SUVs.

The difference is also Cadillac released the cheapest ATS first and then had the similar looking yet more expensive cars follow. Volvo released their most expensive models first and then the similar looking yet cheaper models follow.

Why it’s taking Cadillac so long to spit out their SUVs is beyond me.